My guest this episode is Nicole Zuckerman, a DJ, dancer and software developer living in NYC.
Nicole's first love was tap but lindy stole their heart in 2005.
They have DJed at ILHC, Lindy Focus, Herrang and more. They have taught at LindyFest, Sweet Swingouts and more. They have competed and won lindy hop, balboa and solo jazz competitions across the US.
Nicoles loves social dancing and acting like a goof, sharing the feelings that music gives them.
As well as music and dance, they are deeply passionate about social justice, puppies and gardening and a voracious reader of fantasy and sci-fi.
Nicole isn't mad on social media but you can try tweeting them on @zuckerpunch
They welcome one-on-one chats- so if you'd like that check out their website to get in touch: http://www.nicoleandcarl.dance/
You can find the listen along Spotify playlist HERE
You can find the listen along YouTube playlist HERE
The music license is sponsored by voicesculptor.com
The artwork is by @sazmy_design
You can find DIJ on instagram HERE
Jonathon Stout is the magic fingered man behind the original music for our theme song.
My guest this episode is Nicole Zuckerman, a DJ, dancer and software developer living in NYC.
Nicole's first love was tap but lindy stole their heart in 2005.
They have DJed at ILHC, Lindy Focus, Herrang and more. They have taught at LindyFest, Sweet Swingouts and more. They have competed and won lindy hop, balboa and solo jazz competitions across the US.
Nicoles loves social dancing and acting like a goof, sharing the feelings that music gives them.
As well as music and dance, they are deeply passionate about social justice, puppies and gardening and a voracious reader of fantasy and sci-fi.
Nicole isn't mad on social media but you can try tweeting them on @zuckerpunch
They welcome one-on-one chats- so if you'd like that check out their website to get in touch: http://www.nicoleandcarl.dance/
You can find the listen along Spotify playlist HERE
You can find the listen along YouTube playlist HERE
The music license is sponsored by voicesculptor.com
The artwork is by @sazmy_design
You can find DIJ on instagram HERE
Jonathon Stout is the magic fingered man behind the original music for our theme song.
Hi, I'm Nicole Zuckerman, who you probably know as the crop top wearer, and this is Desert Island Jams with Sarah Spoon.
Sarah Spoon:Hi, I'm Sarah Spoon, and this is Desert Island Jams, a monthly podcast where I sit down with music geeks from the partner dance community and talk about the 10 songs that they would take with them if they were stranded on a desert island with a really tiny mp3 player. My guest this episode is Nicole Zuckerman, a dancer and software developer living in New York City. Nicole's first love was tap, and then they discovered Lindy hop and everything went out the window by all accounts. Sometimes they DJ events like ILHC, Lindy Focus, Swing Savoy, Herrang. So you know, you may have heard of these things. Sometimes they teach dance, sometimes they compete, but mostly they social dance. Aside from music and dance, Nicole is deeply passionate about social justice, puppies, gardening, and is a voracious reader of fantasy and sci fi. Welcome to Desert Island Jams!
Nicole Zuckerman:Thank you, it's really nice to be on here with you, which is also half of a lie, because I'm terrified, but nice also.
Sarah Spoon:it's gonna be fine. I will be very gentle with you.
Nicole Zuckerman:Thank you, it is my first time. I appreciate that.
Sarah Spoon:So on a scale of one to 10 how dreadful was it collating your list?
Nicole Zuckerman:Oh, it was like a, I'm not gonna say it was a 20. Because I didn't want to be hyperbolic. But it was like a nine. It was every song that I had to cut out of that, like top 20 was like painful to my soul.
Sarah Spoon:Did you approach it as? This is my ultimate top 10 forever and ever? Or? This is the soundtrack to my movie of my time on a desert island? Or is it a little bit of both?
Nicole Zuckerman:The way that I interpret it was if I was going to be trapped on a desert island for the rest of my life, what 10 songs what I never get tired of what do I know, I will never not want to hear. And so you'll probably notice that like the music that I've chosen ends in like 1995 or something like that. And that's because I've had like 20 years to figure out. I will never get tired of this. Whereas like new artists, I, I might love them but I not sure that I won't get sick of them in a decade. I'm very conservative in this way.
Sarah Spoon:The youngest song you have is from 2004.
Nicole Zuckerman:Oh, that's better than I thought. So I'm pretty sure that you know the honeymoon period is over. And you know, we've gone through our troubles and then you know, we made it work.
Sarah Spoon:Yeah, well, I'm happy for you and may you and your ten be bathed in sunshine always.
Nicole Zuckerman:That is the dream.
Sarah Spoon:Talk to me about your first track.
Nicole Zuckerman:I think when I started off I was thinking about the dance community and so the first song where I was like, I want to have this on my desert island with me forever. Is Duke Ellington's Rockin In Rhythm. I mean, like it's just, I, it's iconic. It just feels so good. And I get so Jonesed every time I hear it that I was just like thinking about being part of the dance community. This is the song that epitomizes it for me so that's why my starting point,
Sarah Spoon:Mmmm. I'd describe it as a jazz banger?
Nicole Zuckerman:Yep, yeah, it's definitely is it's it just hits so hard. And Duke has such a such a range of music that he created that I feel like Rockin In rhythm, the one, um, live in Newport , has these like movements to it, that are like really distinct but like so well integrated as part of a whole. And then man, like that ending also just really gets me. It makes me, it reminds me a little bit of musical theater, which is my home that I originally come from, it like takes you on a journey with it. And then at the end, you're like, yes,
Sarah Spoon:there's no musical theater on this list.
Nicole Zuckerman:There is no musical theater on this list. That's true. I didn't even consider it actually. I feel like those are in a separate compartment in my brain and I didn't even open that door. I think I would need a whole separate 10 for musical theater. So let's just pretend that they don't exist.
Sarah Spoon:I find it interesting that you've you've done a double Duke. Why Duke and not Basie?
Nicole Zuckerman:Why did I double down on Duke?
Sarah Spoon:Do you pledge allegiance to the flag of the Duke?
Nicole Zuckerman:these days? Yeah, I really do. When I started out my DJing journey, I was way more into Basie. And I actually wasn't really a huge Duke fan. That's which came, I don't know, like, maybe five or seven years into DJing. And like, suddenly, I just could not get enough Duke. I was. Actually there's a story behind this. So I was doing a like Battle of the DJs. With Manu, he was like, we're gonna do this one. It's Basie vs. Duke, I picked Bsie. And so I was like, Well, I guess I'm doing Duke then even though like my comfort zone would have been Basie. And so I did like a ton of research. And I asked everyone like, what's your favorite Duke got such a great introduction to the breadth and depth of Duke and then after that, I was just madly in love, and I could not get enough. I still love Basie a lot. But I think that Duke moves me and changes me when I listen to it, rather than Basie makes me feel home. And Duke makes me push my boundaries. I know other people have different preferences for their favorite version of Rockin In Rhythm, but like this one, just really. It really hits me in the heart place. Yeah, I, I adore the song so much. There's that middle bit that like, Mambo ish section in the middle that reminds me of the cantina from Star Wars. And I will never not think of that when I hear the song. But like you can even tell from the beginning. I feel like some recordings of rocking rhythm that we have. That beginning part can sound a little twee. Like [sings] boop boop, boop boo doo doo doo doo. And it sounds a little cute. But this does not sound cute. It comes out hitting hard. And when you hear that you can't sit down. And so then Carl and I ended up doing a routine to this with a group in San Francisco when we were living there. And it was our I think it's our favorite routine that we've choreographed to date. And the crew that we did it with was like, an incredible group of people who worked super hard. And overall, it was like a really moving experience for me. So that added a layer of depth to my love for this song, which was already so high that it kind of wasn't fair to give this one more weight. But it did. Well,
Sarah Spoon:that is only fair that it gets the prime slot on your on your playlist.
Nicole Zuckerman:Yeah, I guess I guess so. It earned it. It worked hard.
Sarah Spoon:We're following Duke with more Duke with Satin Doll, which is a complete change of vibe. And really cruisey and groovy and I really like the contrast between, but I'm curious about where the love comes from.
Nicole Zuckerman:You know, I don't really know what this one and I've never looked at the lyrics or anything either. I just the feeling of it is like, um, like you're hip deep in molasses in a dark room.
Sarah Spoon:Ooh!
Nicole Zuckerman:that's how I feel when the song comes on. It's just like, it's so smooth and I feel like it's really nuanced. And it doesn't ever like hit you in the face. It's just like subtly there being itself and being so delicious. I find that last note so satisfying. Just the resolution, it's so good. And I love the way that it comes back to the beginning again, because that beginning feels so good. Especially because it pushes the beat a little that like [sings] dun dun dun, is not on the one. It's right before it and so that just like, it's just like so jazzy and cool. And then it comes back and then resolves at the end and I just feel so complete.
Sarah Spoon:So from groovy jazz to some really tasty kind of Motown-y, doo-woppy soul-y awesomeness. Mary Wells, You Beat me to the Punch, what a cracking tune.
Nicole Zuckerman:It's so good. Yeah. And Mary Wells was like, pretty baller If you ask me, she was like one of those first superstars of the Motown sound. And she recorded some songs that Smokey Robinson wrote, and like, clearly, he's stellar. But like the voice that she gives to them, I just adore. And I also feel kind of like Satin Doll, that like Mary wells, the way that she sings a song. And also the song itself is kind of understated. And the way that it like turns around in the end, I find, like really confident, and melancholy and self aware and poignant. And I just, it's like, poking a bruise, you know, like, feels good, but it hurts and you like can't stop.
Sarah Spoon:Did you grow up listening to soul? This is something that you stumbled upon when you are a grown person, or is it? Tell me how it came into your life?
Nicole Zuckerman:That's a really great question. I actually have no idea. When I was growing up. My sister was listening to rap and r&b. And she's six years older than I am. And she's like, the coolest human that I know. So I wanted to be just like her. So I would just like, you know, hear her music through the door, or whatever. And if she ever listens to this, I'm going to deny it. So I grew up listening to her music. And my dad liked one album only, and that was the Rolling Stones. And my mom listened to like classical music. And so I don't know where the soul came from. But I feel like it was always I don't remember ever coming to it for the first time. I just remember hearing it and being like, Oh, yeah, I missed that. So what did I miss it from? Like, when was my first introduction? I have no idea.
Sarah Spoon:I grew up with a little bit of soul. But it wasn't until I got to university that I kind of understood how much had been missing and I wasn't sure if it was one of those songs that you know, you go out with your college friends to like your regular spot and it's always on the playlist and you like you go through the circle of this song again to Oh, what a sweet jam to I'm so over this to our Yeah, but I love it.
Nicole Zuckerman:Well, so I didn't really develop friends until college. That was my first experience. And when we would hang out it was like, Coldplay and stuff by then. It was like a very pretty white school. And so I feel like the soul and the r&b and hip hop and the Motown that I love was like not in anyone's brain
Sarah Spoon:Would you do that song at karaoke?
Nicole Zuckerman:No, I am very conservative and my karaoke picks, because I'm terrible at choosing the actually the song is one of the reasons why I started to learn electric bass so that I could like play along with the things that I love. I mean, ideally, someday while I sing along as well, but like no one has to hear me singing along. And just [sings] mm-chik mm-chik mmm... it's just like, oh, the rhythm of this is so good. I just I will never get over the lyrics the way it goes through, like, the beginning of the courtship and like she's too shy. And I was looking at you so hard, you must have had a hunch you came over to me and asked me my name, you beat me to the punch. And then by the end, she turns it around that like, I beat you to the punch by breaking up with you. And I was like, Oh, snap, you go Mary Wells.
Sarah Spoon:So are you still playing electric bass?
Nicole Zuckerman:Not for the last couple of months, because I decided that doing like two things that I'm pretty crappy at during quarantine was enough at a time. And that more was just going to make me feel like I'm terrible at everything, which is silly, but like, I know my weaknesses. So.
Sarah Spoon:So what things are you doing in quarantine?
Nicole Zuckerman:I've gone back to tap, which was my first dance love. I've been doing it since I was like five. But then once I discovered Lindy Hop when I was like 21,22, something like that. I basically stopped doing ballet tap, jazz, modern, all that stuff and was like, straight into Lindy Hop. And so recently, I started going back home to tap. And it feels really good. But also I'm like now in my 38 year old body, which is not the same as my 10 year old body.
Sarah Spoon:[laughs] Slight difference.
Nicole Zuckerman:slightly different. I was also like knee high to a grasshopper, weighed like 10 pounds soaking wet. That is absolutely not who I am right now. And so it's like, I intellectually know a lot of the things and yet I am relearning them. So that is pretty challenging for me, especially adding like improv into there, because it's something that's very dear to my heart. And so it's like, even shittier to suck at it than it is with like solo jazz, which I've only been doing since, you know, 2005 or whatever. So it's like it's very humbling, but really fulfilling at the same time. But that's like a big one. So I didn't want to have another big one that I was really important to me that I suck at at the same time.
Sarah Spoon:And what's the small thing that you're sucking at?
Nicole Zuckerman:I've been macrom-ing plant hangers. I don't have enough things to hang in macrom. But I am asking all of my friends like, do you have any plants you need to hang I will happily do this for you because it is like exactly up my alley, making knots in an orderly fashion, that is my jam.
Sarah Spoon:Moving on to the next track, which is Oh Honey by Delegation. So I often ask people, what's happening on the desert island while the song is playing?
Nicole Zuckerman:It's definitely nighttime and you're with your honey and dancing under the stars and feeling really grateful and magical in this one moment. This this song I think more than any other that I know, feels really magical to me. And really intimate.
Sarah Spoon:I'm going to be the asshole and say I didn't say your honey is going to be on your desert island!
Nicole Zuckerman:I mean, even if they're imaginary, you're still there just
Sarah Spoon:- with the coconut
Nicole Zuckerman:[laughs] holding the coconut and swaying gently in the sand. Because really, that's all you do to the song, you just like, gently sway back and forth. And just, I don't know, feel just feel
Sarah Spoon:is this part of the'I don't know where it came from' canon, or is it, do you remember?
Nicole Zuckerman:I think this is still part of the I don't know where it came from canon. It has always felt really familiar to me, but I don't remember ever being introduced to it?
Sarah Spoon:Okay, that's how you know the music's doing its magic. You don't notice it just like, comes in the front door, closes it quietly takes its coat off, and it's like, oh no, I've always been here, like, I live here.
Nicole Zuckerman:Yeah, and this one in particular is like, it's just hanging around in the background of the party. You don't know that you've been like, exchanging glances for three hours and then it's four o'clock in the morning and like, you cannot stop dancing with this one person.
Sarah Spoon:I miss parties.
Nicole Zuckerman:Yeah, no kidding. Every time I hear it, it doesn't ever get less magical to me. It feels like that first moment when you've like, told someone you like them, and they've told you they like you. And you're like, this moment could not be any more special. How did I get to this moment in time? And I feel like it's a little bit like Satin Doll and You Beat me to the Punch in that it's like, it doesn't announce itself. Like you were saying. It's just like it's there. And it's like quietly present, but like, has gravity to it. You just get pulled in. And the groove is like so gentle. I love it.
Sarah Spoon:Are you a romantic sort of person?
Nicole Zuckerman:I guesssss?! I'm... I'm big on emotions. Feeling is vital to me. And probably all the songs on this list are there because they make me feel the most? Even if it's like something that is borderline negative i they make me feel
Sarah Spoon:Sooo Prince, yeah? Legend, tiny purple ninja who wails on guitar. Huge catalogue. What made you pick this one?
Nicole Zuckerman:This one was really easy for me. This is the song that Carl and I had our like, not our first dance as a as a married couple too. But this is the one that we made all our friends learn choreography to do with us like a light dance. And Laura Glaess choreographed it for us. And there's a lot of songs that I love in Prince's collected body of work. There's a French word for it. That's like five letters long and I cannot pronounce it to save my life. So I have to say collected body of work every time. It's like, O U E V R E or something like that, like ouevre?
Sarah Spoon:Ouevre?
Nicole Zuckerman:sure that. And when I was doing my master's, I had this problem all the time when I was talking about it with my professors. And I'd be like, Jane Austen's collective body of work, because I could not pronounce that stupid French word and I refuse to say it poorly.
Sarah Spoon:I respect your principles.
Unknown:Anyway. So I knew that I had to have prints on this list that I could not be on a desert island without him. And this one, just it makes me so happy because it reminds me of that moment in my life, where Carl and I were getting married, surrounded by all our friends in a beautiful place. And and the song itself, it just feels so positive. And it's not like yearning. I don't feel. I feel like it's just exuberant. And I love it for that. And it's also kind of sneaky. What makes it sneaky. I want to be your lover. I want to be the only one that makes you come.... running. Hmm. Like that. Just like separation right there. You sneaky mother.
Sarah Spoon:Yeah. But also he says I want to be your lover. I want to be your mother and your sister too.
Nicole Zuckerman:Yeah. Also that
Sarah Spoon:sad day for us all. When he went on to other things.
Nicole Zuckerman:Yeah, yeah, Carl and I were pretty gutted. And we had missed out on an opportunity to see him when he was in San Francisco. He was playing this gig at like a pretty tiny club and there was like a 10 o'clock and then like a one o'clock am show and like we were like, pretty strained in the purse at that point. And we just could not justify like $300 a ticket. But like, in retrospect, it was our last chance and we just should have
Sarah Spoon:Yeah, I feel the same about when he came to to London, I was like, I cannot warrant this. I try not to have regrets, but that's one of them.
Nicole Zuckerman:Yeah, same.
Sarah Spoon:I mean, I could watch you sing along to that, like all day that was.
Nicole Zuckerman:You love the, like stank face that I get, don't you? I I get into it so much. It just, it speaks to me so much every moment. He's got like such amazing rhythm. And the just even his articulation in this song just really like punches me in the gut in the most enjoyable possible way.
Sarah Spoon:Love you down, by, would you say I N O J or Inodge?
Nicole Zuckerman:I think it's'I know j'.
Sarah Spoon:Tell me about this.,
Nicole Zuckerman:Oh, I think this is one of the ones from when I was a teenager. And I wasn't thinking about r&b or hip hop or like pop music really at the time. The stuff that I was listening to was like, Carole King and James Taylor and show tunes. But my sister had excellent taste in music. And I feel like this is the kind of thing that she was playing. Although she also tended towards, like, way harder into rap stuff than I was. But this song really stuck with me. And I didn't even realize it. But when I came back around to listening to this stuff, like, I don't know, like 15 years ago or something. This was one of those songs that was like this is home. This is like so deeply a part of me. I didn't even think about it. It's like asking a fish. What is water? or asking a fish how the water is? And the fish says like, what is water? It was just so deep into my sense of myself that I didn't even remember it.
Sarah Spoon:That's quite an important song.
Nicole Zuckerman:Yeah, it is. And actually so the first time that I wrote this little out for you. I it didn't come to mind didn't come to mind until later. Oh, and I was looking at it and I was like, Oh my gosh, how do I not have this song on there? It's like integral to who I am. I think the song is actually a cover of, I think Ready for the World did it first, and theirs is slow like the intro of this one is and then when this one gets faster I was like, Oh yes, I'm really feeling this. So good. I'm also a sucker for a song with like changing tempos. And there's some that do it very poorly, but when some do it really well, like this one does. I'm just so captured. It's like There's there's a hook that's just got this song on it and I'm like, I need that. Ah, yep. And then I'm flopping into someone's boat and they're like, Oh, no, this one's too small. Put it back.
Sarah Spoon:I'm sure I'm sure that's know what happens when people catch you as a fish. But yeah, okay. But getting back to back to your list is, I Want you Back by Raphael Saadiq featuring Teedra Moses.
Nicole Zuckerman:This is not one that I knew when it first came out. I first heard this when Peter was DJing some soul party somewhere. And he and Naomi pulled out this bad ass line dance that is to this day is still my favorite. And I was like, Oh my God, that's amazing. I need the song. I need this choreography. Took me like five years of only hearing this song. And seeing the choreography once a year before I actually finished learning it. But at that point, I just listened to the song non stop just like on repeat for an entire summer. So Spotify at the end of that summer was like, here's what you did this summer. This one song.
Sarah Spoon:Thank you Spotify. Yes, I did. And I'd do it all again. I tell you,
Nicole Zuckerman:I just got so hooked on this song. It's like got this yearning to it and I can't I can't separate this song from the experience of hearing it. So like the late night soul parties are like, my favorite moments in life. The thing is about that song, there are so many parts of that groove that by themselves would be so compelling but you layer there's like three of them on there. There's like the bass and then there's a [sings] doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. And I just end the rhythm also. And just between those three, I am just so hooked. What's interesting about this song is that like, to me, it doesn't sound like 2005 or whatever it sounds like 1994 maybe or something like that. And so when I first heard it, I thought that it was like, from that time period, and I just missed it. And I went up to Peter. And I was like, What is that song? And he told me what it was. I looked it up later. And I was like, Oh my gosh, this is like relatively contemporary, but it has this feeling in it that I can't get over. That just brings me back to that time. When all I maybe it's because of this because like all I felt during that time was yearning. And this song to me like epitomizes yearning. I have like zero disco or anything on this list. Even though after I listened to like Carole King, and James Taylor and whatever, then somehow I transitioned into like, Billboard Top 100 from 1970. Whatever. Don't ask me how that happened. I have no idea. But I I started to love disco during that time, and the catchiness of that this is definitely not just go the catchiness of it. And that rolling feeling that I think you're getting very much reminds me of disco.
Sarah Spoon:Okay, now we have a wild horses cover by a British indie group actually called the Sundays. And you mentioned your dad only liking one Rolling Stones album earlier. And does this dovetail with the album?
Nicole Zuckerman:Actually, no, this isn't from that album at all. And I didn't even know that the song was a cover until I looked it up later. It was in an episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. That was the first time that I'd heard it. It was like 1999 or whatever. And I was like, What is that sound? And so I found out what it was. And I downloaded a couple of albums from the Sundays. And I realized that I had heard some of their other stuff. But this song, this might be one of my like top three favorite songs in the universe. It just it speaks to me that much. And I think it's probably because of that yearning. And now when I hear the stones version of this, I'm like, ahhh, no,
Sarah Spoon:[laughs] no, Mick, stop it.
Nicole Zuckerman:The Sundays did it better than you. And probably because I heard the Sunday's version first, that's always going to be the case. But this one really speaks to me. Also, because of the moment in Buffy when it comes up, and who I was in 1999. And again, that sense of yearning, and desire and like just the depth of how much it makes me feel. I just I love to feel
Sarah Spoon:what happens when the song is playing?
Nicole Zuckerman:I think Buffy is like slow dancing with Angel or something like that at the Bronze. But I know that she's at the Bronze. And the Sundays are the ones who were on stage because they had live acts at the Bronze, like filming during Buffy. And and it's at this point in their relationship where it's like 'we care deeply for each other, we shouldn't be together' and that angst, and as like 17 or whatever year old Nicole. I was like, 'Oh, I feel that angst. Oh, I feel that so hard'. And once I heard the song and I looked up who it was and sort of listened to a couple of albums, I realized that the the first song of theirs that I knew was Summertime, which I also really love. It feels like totally different to me. [sings]"And it's you and me in the summertime, going hand and hand down in the park." And just It feels like a summer day like in a field of like wild grasses and you can smell them. And you're getting like you're getting like pollen and stuff on your clothes. And that one is really evocative for me too. And I realized that that was the same band after I downloaded a couple of albums. I was like, Oh, I need all of this. So that's like, this is what I listen to this and Joni Mitchell or what I listened to on planes just on repeat is the Sundays and like Joni Mitchell
Sarah Spoon:Yeah, you and I both respond. Like very emotionally to music and feel affection for songs in a similar way. Do you think it's because we were able to see programs that were culturally popular at the time or whatever that were thoughtfully and interestingly, soundtracked? Do you think that's had an impact on our musical journey to the point that because of that, we're now both DJs?
Nicole Zuckerman:That's a really good question. I haven't thought of that before. Now that I look back on my like, 10, age 10 to like, 20 or whatever. So much of the like movies that made a big difference or like TV shows and make it made a big difference to me are like, so intrinsically tied with their with their soundtrack. So like Empire records is like Carl and, my shared favorite movie, the soundtrack to that is killer. It's so good. Romeo and Juliet introduced me to so many great artists and, and that album is just like, so well put together. I think I did listen to like mostly soundtracks for a while and, and the connection between that visual and that audio experience and how how things flow, not even like, on the screen. But like, once you just take the soundtrack, home to yourself, and listen to them in order, even if you're like not thinking about the movie or whatever, it makes so much sense. And I I love, I love how it like, moves around and like, changes things abruptly on you sometimes, and eases you into something sometimes. And I think I have always been in awe of that skill. And I think that's actually, my DJ kryptonite is I I still don't think I'm very good at it. But I find it so inspiring. And I, it makes me want to do that. So I think you might be right.
Sarah Spoon:Like, it depends what you respond to, like, I know people who really respond to the visual element, you know, and they go into filmmaking, cinematography, photography, stuff like that will people get really into like, the books that they read. And so like, it's, it's interesting, what we become sensitive to, when we're at the age when we're receptive to such things. And it's, it's music, and now, you know, we soundtrack our lives, and we help others to do that for brief periods of time when we can, when we can,
Nicole Zuckerman:being able to do it online is a really interesting challenge, though, because most people are listening instead of dancing. I feel like it really opens me up in a way that I'm not used to. And that's like, uncomfortable for me. And also kind of exciting.
Sarah Spoon:Do you do you play from a list in a pre in a mostly pre chosen order? Or do you do it on the fly?
Nicole Zuckerman:I used to prep like, five times as much as I would need. And I would put the first half of that in an order. And then I would change as necessary. But as I've gotten more comfortable with it. Now I queue up like, let's say 100 songs that I think I might want to play tonight. And in that last five minutes of the person before me set or the lesson or whatever, I'll choose my first song. And then halfway through that one, I'll choose like the next two or something like that. So my style has changed a lot in the last probably eight years. Now that I'm more comfortable, I'm like, Yeah, I can do this on the fly. And you know, at this point, I feel like I know the songs that are in my pocket that I can always go to if necessary. If I like get stuck, if someone's like asking me questions, and the song is almost ending and you know you have that like stressful moment. Like I have to pick a thing like go away. I know that I have those in my pocket. So like I don't have to worry so much anymore.
Sarah Spoon:Someone is distracting you you haven't had the chance to pick a song you've got 20 seconds. What do you pick? Go?
Nicole Zuckerman:Probably Shiny Stockings. Actually, I think that's a lie. I think that I save Shiny Stockings for like special moments in the evening when like the energy when people are really with you, but like the energy is like more contemplated. I think probably I do like Wailing Interval would probably be one of my go twos.
Sarah Spoon:But um, anyway, let's um, let's have some Sundays. I was really happy to see Fleetwood Mac on your list, I don't think there's any instance where I don't want to listen to Fleetwood Mac. I really like this track in particular, because Stevie Nicks wrote it in like 10 minutes and played it to the gang who were like[unconvinced noises], and then one of the guys like fiddled around with some chords and made them all like it. And then it went straight to number one in the Billboard chart. Like and it could never have come about, which I find delightful.
Nicole Zuckerman:Yeah, and this song. I feel like you can't help listening to the song with the context of the relationships in the band at the time. Like you're there with Stevie and you're like, hey, all of us in this band are like having relationships with each other, having them fall apart. And like we're still there with each other. We love each other deeply. And yet, there are these things between us and you just have to learn Like, at some point Stevie learned to be on her own again. And I think that I like bond myself with people really easily and I listened to the song a lot at times when I need to remind myself that I am enough on my own.
Sarah Spoon:And we've blazed through to the the final song! Which is a great final song voted by NME magazine as the number one indie song to have at your wedding. And the best alternative love song of all time, but they did. They voted on the best love song of all time in 2009, so they may have changed their position since then.
Nicole Zuckerman:Yeah, I stand by this one. This is another one that I love just for the emotion that it evokes in me. And maybe I shouldn't say this where people can hear it. But this song is actually one of two songs. That is the reason why I broke off my first engagement. I heard this song and the other one is Arcade Fire, Ready to Start. And I listened to those. And I realized that for the first time, in a long time, I really I felt again, and I forgot what that felt like. I forgot what that experience was like, and how integral it is for me to like my experience of the world. And I was like, Oh, I need to not. I need to not be in a situation where where I don't feel deeply anymore. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sarah Spoon:Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's amazing how much music can suddenly be like, hey, okay. Here is the message.
Nicole Zuckerman:Yeah, totally.
Sarah Spoon:Yeah. Would you like to introduce the song?
Nicole Zuckerman:Yeah. So this is, maps by the way is and I love it, especially the intro. Listen to the intro in the way it layers. Such a bold intro. And outro they hang for so long and it's just so poignant. I love that song so much.
Sarah Spoon:And so good and it's it stays in your head. It's not what you'd think of as a normal ear worm, but like it really like.
Nicole Zuckerman:Yeah, it digs in there. Yeah, I feel like Jackson Five is like a very easy your worm type thing. But this one just like, Yeah, this one just burrows in there into the middle of your brain where it will never get out. You're welcome.
Sarah Spoon:Thanks. And we've done like, that's the list. Boom. Whoo. Yeah, just flew through. That was super fun. Thank you for sharing these with me.
Nicole Zuckerman:Oh, thank you so much for asking. It was it was very challenging to narrow down this list. But building it up was very fun. I got to be like, Oh, this one and that one. And I feel like I learned something about myself during the process to about like how important feeling is to me in my music.
Sarah Spoon:And that was our episode. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed it. If you want to get hold of Nicole, you can have a go at tweeting them on Twitter, where they are sometimes active and the username is @zuckepunch, but they're not really active on social media. But if you do want to talk to them one on one conversation style about music, dance and stuff like that, then email is best. And you can probably get those details from www.nicoleandcarl.dance. You will notice that there is no midpoint advert break in this podcast. So if you'd like to continue for that to be a thing then please go to patreon.com/desertislandjams. You can find us on Instagram. Guess what the username is? Yeah, that's correct. It's Desert Island Jams. Desert Island jams is produced by me Sarah Spoon. The music license is kindly sponsored by voicesculptor.com. Sara Azmy also known as @sazmy_design on Instagram is the magician who whipped up the graphics. Jonathan Stout produced original music for our soundtrack. Please go to Bandcamp and buy all of his things immediately. Remember, you can find listen on on the playlist on Spotify and YouTube you just need to type Desert Island Jams into the s arch bar. If you would l ke a transcript for this epi ode, FYI, all of the episodes have transcript, then you just n ed to follow the link that is n the show notes. Again, thank y u for listening and desert isla d and we'll return next