It's only Jonathan Blimmin' Stout as my guest this month! (Not his real middle name)
A Lindy Hopper since 1996, he grew up in the Southern California swing revival, learning from original-era Lindy and Balboa dancers. He started playing swing music in 1999, and in 2002 started a band with Hilary Alexander, the Campus Five, with the sole and express purpose of playing dance music for Lindy Hop and Balboa dancers.
He's released 4 albums that are now pretty much standard issue for swing dance DJs and instructors around the globe. At the request of promoters for different flavours, he's started SIX more bands: the JSO, the Grand Slam Sextet, etc. They play the top swing dance events in the US and around the Globe: Lindy Focus, Camp Hollywood, ILHC, Lindy Shock, California Balboa Classic, and all the others.
You can find the listen along Spotify playlist HERE
You can find the listen along YouTube playlist HERE
You can find the special Holidays playlist on Spotify HERE!
The music license is sponsored by voicesculptor.com
The artwork is by @sazmy_design
You can find DIJ on instagram HERE
Jonathon Stout is the magic fingered man behind the original music for our theme song.
It's only Jonathan Blimmin' Stout as my guest this month! (Not his real middle name)
A Lindy Hopper since 1996, he grew up in the Southern California swing revival, learning from original-era Lindy and Balboa dancers. He started playing swing music in 1999, and in 2002 started a band with Hilary Alexander, the Campus Five, with the sole and express purpose of playing dance music for Lindy Hop and Balboa dancers.
He's released 4 albums that are now pretty much standard issue for swing dance DJs and instructors around the globe. At the request of promoters for different flavours, he's started SIX more bands: the JSO, the Grand Slam Sextet, etc. They play the top swing dance events in the US and around the Globe: Lindy Focus, Camp Hollywood, ILHC, Lindy Shock, California Balboa Classic, and all the others.
You can find the listen along Spotify playlist HERE
You can find the listen along YouTube playlist HERE
You can find the special Holidays playlist on Spotify HERE!
The music license is sponsored by voicesculptor.com
The artwork is by @sazmy_design
You can find DIJ on instagram HERE
Jonathon Stout is the magic fingered man behind the original music for our theme song.
Hi, I'm Jonathan Stout, guitarist and band leader. You probably don't know who I am. That's, that's totally okay. That's That's fine. And this is Desert Island Jams with Sarah Spoon
Sarah Spoon:Hi, I'm Sarah Spoon, and this is Desert Island Jams, a monthly podcast where I sit down with the chief music nerds of the Lindy hop and blues dance communities and talk about the 10 songs they would take with them on a tiny mp3 player to a desert island. My guest this month is the one and only Jonathan stout, a world renowned and loved guitarist, musician and bandleader based in Los Angeles. Jonathan has been a Lindy hopper since 1996. And he grew up in the Southern California swing revival learning from the original era Lindy and Balboa dances, he started playing swing music in 1999. And in 2002, started a band with Hilary Alexander called the Campus Five, who incidentally, understand have an album coming out in roughly the area of March 2021. Just as an FYI. Since forming the Campus Five, he hasn't looked back and is now involved with at least seven bands and counting that play around the globe at all kinds of Lindy Hop events. Now, if you know anything about Jonathan Stout, you'll also know that he is.... he could probably talk the leg off of a table, and he knew I was gonna say something like that we're friends, I'm not gonna get in trouble. It's fine. Don't worry about me. So with that in mind, this is actually a bumper episode, because you know, it's Christmas. And so our gift to you. This episode does clock in at over two hours. So, you know, you're welcome. Just a little note that Jonathan's son Charlie was doing what small children do at a few points of our interview, which is to say running around and making noise. So if you like, why can I hear a small child. That's why also, this is your content warning for discussions around racism, mortality, cancer, loss in the family. And if you respond to the sounds of people getting emotional, you should know that that happens multiple times in this episode, not because I'm a ruthless interviewer, but because, okay, well, maybe I am a ruthless interviewer, I'll leave you to be the judge of that. Welcome to Desert Island Jams.
Jonathan Stout:Hello,
Sarah Spoon:Did you find this difficult?
Jonathan Stout:I did only because there's so much music I like and there's so much music that's been meaningful to me over my life, that reducing it down to 10 songs is a bit challenging, because I could do 10 swing songs, that means something to me in or illustrative of my journey as a person. And even then that would be really limiting. So, you know, my life and how I came to be a swing musician is, is sort of one half of it. And then there's all of this stuff that I've done since becoming a jazz musician, that's sort of separate and apart.
Sarah Spoon:Let's goes straight into the first one. And for the record, I'm fully expecting to get what I call Stout Lessons, which is the kind of information that you give us between each song and each set.
Jonathan Stout:I have the condition that I don't know what the technical term is, but it involves in forming people against their will. [Sarah Laughs] And, you know, I know consent is a really important part of life and everything and I unfortunately will talk whether people are asking me to or not and so I'm hoping at some point that when I have rambled on enough you will please tell me you're done with what I'm talking about! [laughs]
Sarah Spoon:We will feel it out as the show goes on. Metronome All Stars All Star jump or known as One O'clock Jump - why this track?
Jonathan Stout:if I literally had to have one song on a desert island for the rest of my life, it would be this one. And this is one of the greatest swing songs to dance to in recorded history. But more than that, it has everything that I value in swing music and value most dearly. I mean, there's so many things to value but like the things that really just speak to me the most and get my my spirit moving, are in the song and it's also a collection of some of the jazz musicians that mean the most to me of all, you know, it's really easy for me to go, oh, what's your favorite band Benny Goodman duh, like, slam dunk, easy peasy. The breadth and variety of Benny Goodman's music from his small groups to his big bands. And the number of flavors of Benny Goodman there are that are all kind of united, you know, with a common thread, but they're also different these different variations. It's like, that's just it for me. And it's like Goodman or Basie. I know. It's not as cool to say Goodman, but like, I'll take Goodman. So this is basically this amazing All Star group, Benny Goodman, Count Basie, Coleman, Hawkins, Benny Carter, JC Higginbotham, Tommy Dorsey, Harry James, Cootie Williams, Ziggy Elman, Buddy Rich, and my hero, Charlie Christian on guitar. And it's rare that you get to hear Charlie Christian, outside of one of the small groups, Charlie Christian is my hero because he really made electric guitar a thing. And he's also when I think of approaching the electric guitar. That's, that's what I think of, and what I tried to do. The music of the Benny Goodman sextet that he was very instrumental in creating, not just through his guitar playing, but also just the the riffs and things that he added that were clearly his contribution to the sound of the group. Those are just my favorite things to do with the Campus Five, but I named my son Charlie, and for Charlie Christian specifically. And not only did I want to do that, just in deference to an artist that I love a lot, but there is something about Charlie's story that I thought was really important for my son to have as his background as an object lesson. And Charlie Christian was a young black man that died very, very young. And I've been trying to find research or sources that backup my supposition that he received substandard medical treatment at a all-Black hospital. And I haven't been able to find anything that specifically says there was something lacking in his treatment. So I can't say 100%, that there was something specifically that he didn't get. But he was put in an all-B lack hospital. And at that point in time, tuberculosis really had not much of a treatment, there's just something about the fact that he probably didn't have to die that way. That is something that I want my son to know. And I'll never have to have the conversation with my son about, you know, you better be careful that when the cop pulls you over, you put your hands up, because he's a little white boy, he's not going to get treated that way. And I know that there are people of color that do have to have that conversation. So part of why I named him that is because I wanted to know that,[gets emotional] that not everybody gets treated the same, and that's not okay. And I was kind of not sure the, the order in which we were going to go through the songs. And when I made this list, it brought up a lot of emotions. And you know, this song isn't just one of my favorite swing songs, because it is like 100% is it's got all of these riffs. And these just great solos and all of this rhythmic energy, and it's just everything I want in sw ing music, but it's also the story of all these people. And you've got all of these immigrant stories wrapped up in this, all of these sons of slaves that are wrapped up in all this. And so their stories are just really important. So this song isn't just a song, because it is and I, I can enjoy the joy in this 100% without any of the extra stuff. But there are layers, and they inform it. So, you know, this is one of the few times that you'll hear Charlie Christian get to play with a full orchestra, because he was almost always relegated to a small group. And that was because of segregation and, and the racial attitudes of the time. And that's, that's a sad, unfortunate thing. But it is something we should be aware of. Getting back to the kind of the joy of this song, you have some of my favorite people, Benny Carter, who I don't think gets enough credit as being one of the great alto players. Coleman Hawkins does this funny thing where he really hated All Star jam sessions. And like, just kind of looked down on the whole thing. And so what he would sometimes do is just play like the same lick over and over and over again. And on the one hand, he's being a little dismissive. On the other hand, it totally swings and it's awesome. And so his solo of one chorus of 'A Blues in D flat' ends up being the head to a song called'Feedin' the Bean' that he records later that year with Count Basie because his often foil Lester Young, kind of his rival for tenor saxophone supremacy, left the Basie band and for a brief period he was brought in for four songs. And so Feedin' the Bean is that melody that you play [sings] doo doo doo doo doo doo bu-doo doo Doo doo doo doo doo, doo doo doo. And it's like the commitment that he's like he just keeps playing that same motif over and over again. I love that I love buddy Rich's drums, they're just tight and taut. And the thump of the band is like everything I want in swing music. So, I know that's a lot. [laughs] That's a lot of information and a lot of meaning. But the Oh, by the way, the B side to this, you know, it was a 78 RPM record. The B side to this is the same the same All Star band doing Bugle Call Rag, and it is by far without question, the best version of Bugle Call Rag ever recorded. Like if this were 19? You know, 42. And I had to have a desert island disc meaning a one, you know, A side and the B side of a 78 track record? It would be it would be that one without without question.
Sarah Spoon:I expected nothing less of this sort of answer. Like Don't be afraid to go deep.
Jonathan Stout:I've already started crying. I'm not sure how much do you want me to get?[laughs]
Sarah Spoon:[laughs] I mean, I'm not sure if that speaks about your emotional state right now or my prowess as an interviewer. But I think that's probably the former as it's the first song. I value hearing people mentioning the heavy shit because that's, that's the history. That's the context and you can't have one without the other.
Jonathan Stout:And it's it's hard to do in a way that, you know, supports the kind of thing we're all doing, which is there to have fun swing dancing, but I try and it's it's hard not to be preachy, it's hard. Also, it's hard being a white guy trying to explain all of the problems of Black people. But that's way less hard than it is being a Black person. So I'm going to shut up and not complain. But I do have to be I do try to be delicate with the fact that like, I don't mean to white splain things. But I just think it's really important to have this context because the stories of how these songs are shaped is an indelible part of this music and and why it's important and why it meant something then and why it still means something now, but it's definitely tricky to do in an efficient way that doesn't turn people off that isn't preachy, and that doesn't run the risk of white splaining. But I mean, that's a lot easier than actually you know, being the target of systematic oppression so I'll, I'll not complain about that.
Sarah Spoon:A solid start, which leads us to Lester Young'Jammin the Blues'.
Jonathan Stout:This is another kind of one of one of a kind jam session gatherings of all star musicians. This is from a 1944 short film shot by Life magazine photographer Gjon Mili. He's the one that did the Life magazine issue that had Lindy Hop on the cover and had all those dancers in it. That film is, it won an Academy Award for a short film in 1944. And not only was it visually interesting, but it's just this amazing jazz jam session. And when I started the Campus Five, because that was on like swing dancing compilations. So back in the 90s when I started swing dancing, there wasn't YouTube, there wasn't really access to clips. It wasn't as bad as when Sylvia Sykes was starting to dance and she would have to wait up all night to like watch a movie that was on late night TV for the hope that it might have Lindy Hop in it. And Marie Bryant who sings in part of it. Also dances Lindy Hop. I don't think I know the name of the male dancer.
Sarah Spoon:That's refreshing.
Jonathan Stout:[laughs] Yeah, well, absolutely. But it's a jazz symphony. And it's this thing in three parts where it's Lester Young's pork pie hat and silhouette with smoke floating up and it's just shot beautifully and it starts with them playing a very very, very slow blues and then Marie Bryant walks into frame and they count off Sunny Side of the Street, and that's my favorite version of Sunny Side of the Street. I just love the way she sings that and then that song ends and all of a sudden there's this like, awesome drum solo out of nowhere. And it's Big Sid Catlett all of a sudden wailing on the drums and then Joe Jones, Count Basie's drummer, walks into frame with grabs the tosses on a stick and then he starts playing a cymbal and then Sid gets up and he takes over the drum set all of those the seamless drum solo happening. Fun fact, they recorded it at another time from when they shot it and so the order of who's on drums when is actually backwards in the movie, so when you see Sid Catlett playing, it's really Joe Jones when you see Joe Jones is really Sid Catlett and so you know, Joe's having to mind what Sid's doing. But they're basically starts this like drum solo and then all of a sudden there's this riff [sings] but a data data Dude, that dude, that dude, and that's everything that I wanted for the Campus Five when I started that band was the riffing and the energy and the excitement of that song. And so that was, that's basically what I've considered our theme song to be from from the beginning in 2002. So this one of a kind gathering of musicians was amazing. So it was Lester Young, Sweets Edison, like I said, Sid Catlett and Joe Jones. Barney Kessel is playing guitar, Illinois Jacquet joins in on tenor and obviously Marie Bryant singing and Marlowe Morris. And again, what's interesting is there's a racial aspect to all of this. So Barney Kessel was the next great electric jazz guitar player. And he basically knew Charlie Christian before he was famous and jammed with him and was one of his greatest acolytes. But he was a white guy. And in this film of all Black musicians, when they show him in the movie, they actually tinted him dark, so that he would fit in. It wasn't Blackface, that's a different thing. But basically like, like some of Duke Ellington's musicians who were Black, but not dark enough, that had to be darkened in movies, to not upset racists. He was tinted so that he wouldn't seem to be Black. And he's only really shot over his shoulder, and then shots of his hands on his fingerboard. But he was basically stained with like grape juice or something to be darkened. So I mean, like the kind of really questionable racist stuff and weird racial overtones are sort of just easily found in all of this stuff. But you know, the thing is, as far as everyone in the band is concerned, it's like, it's Barney Kessel. He's the next best guitar player to come along since Charlie Christian and Charlie Christian died three years earlier. So like Barney Kessel's, like the cat, you know, and they don't care if he's white. They just want to play good jazz. But so, when we started playing that song, it was sort of our traditional closer, and Illinois Jacquet, who's another great figure and tenor saxophone who figures very prominently into my life, um, Flying Home managed to not be on this list, which is sort of funny.
Sarah Spoon:I was surprised.
Jonathan Stout:Well, it's hard because there isn't a specific version of Flying Home that belongs on this list because Flying Home the entity in itself floating in the ether that happens every time we play it and all the different versions of Flying Home, is sort of its own thing separate and apart from just any specific recording of it. So I couldn't pick one, although obviously the 1942 one would be important, but then again, like it starts as a Charlie Christian riff, and I think Charlie Christian probably actually wrote it because it's a very guitaristic thing. But Illinois Jacquet, having played that famous sax solo in 1942 on Lionel Hampton's Flying Home, he's in this and he, there's his solo basically, they break up the tom toms and he just starts wailing over tom toms, and he starts doing his like screeching squealing honking thing. Albert who's been the sax player in the Campus Five since the very beginning Albert Alva ,Illinois Jacquet is his cat. And I already started by putting Illinois Jacquet tunes and what we did because I love Illinois Jacquet, but because I saw that that was what his wheelhouse was, we kind of kept on that thread. And at one point, I think was like on our second or third gig, it just occurred to me like, nah, man, let him go, like, open it up, open it up, like or, oh, it's probably a jam circle. Actually, there was probably a jam circle that happened. And I was like, Alright, well, let's keep this going. And then it became like a Paul Gonsalves Diminuendo and Crescendo in Blue at Newport thing where it was like, just keep going, just keep going. You know. And, you know, we've gotten into like, 20, 30 choruses. And it's just, it's just mad. And we actually had to stop doing it for a while, because it became a bit much and there are certain gigs where the energy level of the crowd does not warrant playing the song and especially not that way. And I wanted it to remain special rather than get played out or get tried.
Sarah Spoon:Do you want to hazard a guess at what Albert's Illinois Jacquet track he picked for his list?
Jonathan Stout:I mean, I, man that's a Robin's nest maybe?
Sarah Spoon:Yeah.
Jonathan Stout:Awesome.
Sarah Spoon:That's a real bromance right there.
Jonathan Stout:[laughs] I love that man so much, he is... I'm trying not to get weepy during every one of these because we've got a few to go and I'm going to be dehydrated at a certain point, but like Albert's just one of those special people that it's been really special to me that we've gotten to do so many cool things. And getting to bring Albert to be a part of that is so cool, because you know,
Sarah Spoon:He's a badass.
Jonathan Stout:Well, he's a badass, but he's also like, you know, just this dude from San Bernardino, California, that you know, plays jazz saxophone and like, I can't wait to hear your thing with Albert because I want to know more. I want to know more than I already know. And I what I do know is already like, makes me cry.
Sarah Spoon:Yes, you need to listen to the episode, but also, we're here to talk about you and your Musical choice. So with that flawless segway, I'm gonna play [begins to laugh] Jammin the the Blues.
Jonathan Stout:So good, the term syncopation is one of those things that gets tossed around. And sometimes it's not exactly clear what it means or it can pertain to multiple things. But what the term syncopation really says to me and speaks to me about is one of the things that I love most about good swing music. And it's this combination of things that are on the beat versus things that are off the beat. So things that are like, up and up beats and down beats and, and so like that riff[sings] da-dup badup up up, but it's like down, up, up, up, down, up that you know, like it keeps throwing you back and forth between what you're expecting. And that that's what really adds all of that rhythmic excitement and part of what I have to concentrate on because, you know, I come from being a swing dancer who was listening to bands of very talented jazz musicians that had no love or interest in the actual kind of jazz that people Lindy hop to, and they were playing it either condescendingly or not historically accurate at all. And part of what was missing. And that was what my mission is about is underneath that up and down that kind of like throwing you back and forth side to side thing, is, having a solid thumping beat, and it's almost like 1930s disco or 1930s house music where it's got to have the 30s equivalent of you know,[sings pulsing drum beat] like, and that's that throb is the thing upon which that solid foundation is the thing when it isn't upbeat, that's the opposite of that. It's like[sings pulsing drum beat] the like the upbeat thing, that's what makes it jump if it was just like, [sings in monotone] uuuuuuh-ah!, like it would mean anything it's because it's such a stark contrast. So that song is another example of something that's got that, it's sometimes people talk about as like a clav kind of thing, or like a hemiola thing where it's a pattern of three over a pattern of two so when a great example of that idea is in Jumping at the , [sings] be-doo-be--oo, bup bup bup, bedoo-boo bup bup bup, so you get this up, down, down, up, up, down, down and that, you know, that's that's the syncapation, and again because it's got that solid foundation. That's the thing that really makes it jump out of the speakers and move you even more than it would by itself.
Sarah Spoon:Artie Shaw, Man from Mars. Stone cold banger.
Jonathan Stout:Yeah, so I picked this for what it means and kind of what I'm about. So this is
Sarah Spoon:aliens?
Jonathan Stout:Uh, yes, obviously I am. I'm no, I'm specifically about male gendered things from another planet, that's all i.... [Sarah laughs] So this is a tune that wasn't recorded in the studio. It was just captured live over the air. And in the age of CDs, it was released. I don't know if it was ever put out on 78. But it definitely wasn't something that was common. But in the age of CDs, it was released. And it was found on a collection that people started swing dancing, would DJ from and often people that were DJing for Balboa. But what it is, is it's this amazing swing dance tune, it's a banger like you said, but it's not something that like jazz nerds know about because it doesn't mean anything to them. It's just another killer diller to them. Whereas, for Lindy hoppers and Balboa dancers, this is like one of the all time best. And when we started our big band, the story of starting our big band was sort of funny, we had played one of the largest monthly dances in Los Angeles at the time was like 1000 people. And it was huge, because this was like the early 2000s. And we had played with our small band, and they only had big bands. And so they invited us to do like a small band battle with another small band with Josh Collazzo's first band, the Feet Warmers. And because that was, you know, having two small bands on one stage was okay for them. And doing a band battle that's actually fun to dance to, is really challenging. And because otherwise, it's just a bunch of dumb one upsmanship. And it's unfun. And I still hate man battles. And I'm at this point, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to do another one ever again, because they're incredibly unfun. And even getting them to be okay to watch is a challenge. But anyway, I it went well. And so I sort of said as a joke to the promoter, like, you know, hey, if you ever want me to put together a big band for you guys, just let me know. And I, I was trying to be say that jokingly and be a little bit kidding. The Austrian promoter who doesn't have that level of self humor. He said, Yeah, was sure whatever. And like six months later, he calls He's like, so we need you to put a big band together. [laughs] And it was because they were, they were closing, they needed something really good for the last night. And they had already had the other best bands in LA that they would have picked. And they had just had them the month before. And so they were like, Well, can you help us and we weren't, you know, that big a deal then. And when we started the big band, I knew that this song, Man from Mars, as a represent not only was it just a banger and such a great tune, but it's also a representation of the things that the jazz community does not care about, or value or hold legendary that swing dancers do. I think at this point, a lot of people when we play don't realize that I'm a 25 plus year Lindy Hopper, and then Hillary is, and that Josh is, and they don't realize like, one of us one of us, that I am, I am one of you all because I Lindy Hop too. And I know what it's like to go to dances and have music that's one way versus another way and all of that stuff. But I wanted to have this be like, and especially at the time what this song symbolized was, this is something that I can't just go buy in a store. I had to have this transcribed by somebody that was an expert and write all the notes down. And, you know, this was long before the era of Lindy Focuses where we were doing crowdfunding campaigns to transcribe 30 songs, like, it was a lot of money. I was a college student at the time. And I basically spent, you know, hundreds of my own dollars to have the song transcribed because I wanted this to be our centerpiece
Sarah Spoon:Worth it.
Jonathan Stout:I think so. And yeah, and it's just got all of the things that I love. It's got Buddy Rich on drums and early Buddy Rich is like pretty unbeatable. I'm still a Krupa guy at heart, but it's a very representative of like the thing that Buddy Rich does, which is why he's not my 100% favorite. He's like a my top, you know, five, but
Sarah Spoon:who is your 100% favorite and you're not allowed to say Josh.
Jonathan Stout:Well, Josh is the best living swing drummer.
Sarah Spoon:we we agree.
Jonathan Stout:No, I mean, Krupa, Krupa is my favorite. Like, I'll take Joe Jones and Sid Catlett and Rich and [Chick] Webb obviously, but I... Krupa. I'll take Krupa every time, and what he does is he's taking, he comes from the tradition of Zutty Singleton. So if you know Moppin and Boppin, the Fats Waller record. There is a big drum solo at the beginning of that song and that Zutty Singleton who, you know, played before that with came from New Orleans and came up through the whole history of jazz, but there's something about that[sings] Baba doo, Baba doo, did that that kind of like hemiola thing. That's so much a part of Zutty, that's in Krupa. And that like classic cowbell lick,[sings] boom, ding, ding, ding, like that all comes from Zutty. So, but we're talking about an Artie Shaw song that has a Buddy Rich playing drums on it. Yeah, it's just like it's a stone cold banger. What I love also about it is when I talk about a big band song and the way that arranging needs to have structure, there's, in modern jazz or kind of straight ahead jazz. And in some kind of like more modernized, traditional jazz, there's this thing of like, okay, start playing the song, we all kind of improvise the melody. And then eventually somebody will take a solo and who knows how long that solo is going to be. And then then the next person comes in. But there's no real structure. There's kind of ebbs and flows as the band responds to the soloist, but, it's all responsive rather than telegraphing anything. So in a big band, it we're in a good small band arrangement, the drummer knows what's going to happen before it happens, he knows that the next thing is going to come up, you know, whatever. So there's foreshadowing that they can do and there's, so in this song, there's these great parts where it's like a ripping hot solo, and then it comes to the bridge and then boom, beat four right before the bridge starts, okay, quiet for the piano solo. And so that like, I almost think of it if you graphed it, the dynamics, it would look like a Lego skyline, where it's like these blocks. And this is just a perfectly done swinging dance arrangement where there's ups there's downs, and the downs set up the ups to feel even bigger.
Sarah Spoon:Okay, so do you want to introduce it so you can remind everybody what we're about to listen to?
Jonathan Stout:[laughs] Yeah, this is Artie Shaw's Man from Mars recorded live.
Sarah Spoon:I think if I was going to be in a spy show on TV, that would have to be like my theme.
Jonathan Stout:Yeah, there's something about those minor keys that just have all that mystery.
Sarah Spoon:Bye Bye Blues by Arnold Ross Quartet featuring Betty Carter and Alan Reuss? Reece? [experiments with pronouncing]
Unknown:Reuss. And that, yeah, the how to pronounce his name has been a source of question, because it's spelled like Dr. Seuss, but with an R. And in German, it should actually be Dr. Soyce, and so it should be Royce. But I managed to randomly talk to someone that took lessons with him in the 50s here in LA, and they said Rouss and I heard somewhere else Benny Goodman, say Rouss. And I was like, Alright, good enough. So Alan Reuss was the rhythm guitar player in Benny Goodman's kind of most classic big band from 1935 to 1938. He was at Carnegie Hall on all of the great air checks that are on that on the air 1937/ 1938 CD that is so good. That has like that great five minute version of St. Louis Blues. Allen is really was like the guy that held that band together. He kind of reined Krupa in and his thump is just really identifiable. He's really hard to look up because as a sideman, he doesn't have CDs with his name on it. And he's not that famous like Coleman Hawkins or Lester Young where you'll find a Lester Young CD, that's a collection of his sideman stuff. But aside from being like, I think the best rhythm guitar player even even though Freddie Green is the other great one, I actually prefer Alan's playing. Again, not cool, but I think Alan's my guy, just love that sound that he has. So besides being that rhythm guitar player, he played these chord melody solos. And when we started the band, there were several songs that were in our opening lineup that feature Alan Reuss chord solos, like Stuffy by Coleman Hawkins from 44, 45. And there were a couple others. And so that was just always a part of what I did. And I think John Reynolds was the one that turned me on to this track, who's my hero of a guitar player that's alive and living. This track was a local LA rhythm section of Nick Fatool on drums, and Alan Reuss on guitar and Arnold Ross on piano, I don't remember who the bass player is. But they have a special guest, Benny Carter. And so it's basically if any Carter session with this rhythm section, and Benny just plays this amazing solo. It's just I love it, it's my own my favorite alto solos. And then Alan takes his solo and it is the possibly the most swinging best example of swing style chord melody playing. And part of that style is like composed pieces or solo guitar pieces, or kind of things that are written to be guitar features. And then some of that stuff is just improvised solos in a band. This is the example of the best improvised in a band solo, and it swings so hard, it's a very quick tune, and he's just ripping from beginning to end, there are two alternate takes, which I found much, much much later. And it's amazing to see that there are certain licks that he repeats in certain places, but not all of them and not the ones that I necessarily thought. And so he's really improvising and doing it while playing a whole bunch of notes at the same time. Also, what's cool is the way the song starts, is he's playing half notes. So you don't, the whole first chorus is just kind of floating because he's playing [sings] bling bling bling.... while the rest man is going you know[claps and scats] thump thump, thump, thump, thump, and it's very ethereal and floaty and then all of a sudden it shifts into gear on the second chorus and you hear a [sings] jum-tum-tum-tum-tum from Alan and so you get this great contrast of textures when he slips into gear, and then you get the best chord solo of all time and it just swings and it makes me happy every time. I hear it.
Sarah Spoon:Right we've made it to song five!
Jonathan Stout:So this is something that was recorded live at a just a jam session after hours in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and like a basement or something. And it's Jerry Jerome i think is Oscar Pettiford on bass. I don't recall who the piano player is. But usually Charlie, because he was in the Benny Goodman sextet, which was this arranged thing where, you know, so many of the Benny Goodman sextet songs are things that people DJ for swing dancers because they're these perfect three minute arrangements. And they have ups and downs and they, they're great. But it means that Charlie's playing is a little bit limited, because a lot of times he'll be playing the A section and other A section, the bridge comes up and they give it away. And then either maybe he gets to come in in the last eight bars, or maybe he doesn't. And so you're constantly getting little, little snippets of Charlie Christian, and not just like unending things, there's no, there's no recordings of him leading his own quartet, for example, like there would be with Coleman Hawkins or Lester Young, where they can just really stretch out. But this is like a whole two choruses of Charlie Christian, just wailing. And I love that you can hear him playing rhythm guitar, clearly, these solid quarter notes, one of the things that's really tough about rhythm guitar is trying to hear it on recordings. It blends into the high hats, it blends into the bass. And sometimes it's hard to tell whether the person is going[sings ] chunk, chunk, chunk, chunk, chunk, chunk, chunk or ching, ching, ching ching. And the answer is, if it's Alan Reuss, or you know, the other people that I like, they're not doing that they're going [sings] chunk chunk chunk chunk chunk chunk chunk, And so I've always had that as a thesis that, no matter what the optical or not optical illusion, the oral illusion that the overlapping frequencies is creating. The guitar player in reality is going [sings] chunk, chunk, chunk, chunk, and that's that thump that I just want to Lindy hop to that I want to Balboa to that is just make swing music, swing music as opposed to other forms of jazz. So on here, you can hear him playing electrically [sings] chunk, chunk, chunk, chunk, chunk, and it's a short fat little quarter notes. They're not staccato per se because they have a little bit of fatness to them. They go on just a little bit, but that nice, short ish note, if you manage it, yeah, that's that just speaks to me as a rhythm guitar player. And then the other thing about this song is I've always had a tough time with this tune, because the way the chords move, it can be a little bit of a steeplechase. And I never really figured out how to approach it in a way that wasn't very mechanical sounding,[sings] booba dida dooba dooba, dooba, dooba, dooba, dooba, dooba dooba, it was just like scales up and down, up and down. didn't sound like music. And then I finally learned Charlie's first chorus, and it was like, oh, okay, so it's going two five, two five. And over those two bars. He's just playing a blues lick over the one chord. Okay, all right, that's fine. And then the next time the two five two five thing comes around, he just plays a big flat, five chord overtop of it. It's like, Oh, so I should be thinking melodically and simplify the changes, and then I'll be able to make music and now that's what I do. And so because I understand the way he approached This song now I understand how to play over those kinds of songs better. It was only because I delved in and really learned it that it like made sense. And I'm a better guitar player for having learned this song.
Sarah Spoon:I hope that made sense to the non guitar players who are listening. And for people who are just baffled, I just want to explain that the[sings] chunk chunk chunk chunk chunk, that Jonathan was is doing is strumming downwards on the strings and not bringing the pick back up again. So it's just all down strums rather than down, up, down, up, down, up.
Jonathan Stout:Yeah, and there's also no upbeats there's no and it's just 1234123. A lot of times, people that are new to the style, they want to play all of the beats like a drummer would and play the accents. And they're playing [sings] doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. It's like, nope, no, there's no 'and's, there's no ups. And like, a lot of people come from Manouche style guitar playing, which is the kind of style the Django Reinhardt popularized. And that's it. That's a whole separate cultural tradition in the Roma community that has gone on long after Django Reinhardt died, and has its own kind of orthodoxy and stuff. But a lot of people that play guitar come from that or start there. And there is a shuffle, [sings] a-doh-a-a-doh, a-dah-uh-a-da-uh, that stutter in it is like not what the American players of this time are doing. And so what I try to do is focus on what was actually the way it was played, rather than bringing in this outside influence that wasn't really congruent at the time. And also like, that shuffle thing isn't what I really love to dance to. So.
Sarah Spoon:And I think the final question for this track is how do you take your tea,
Jonathan Stout:Um, I take it as coffee. [laughs] But if I'm gonna have tea, it'll be some Assam black with a little bit of honey lemon.
Sarah Spoon:Number six now which is... it has the amazing guitarist theme running through from songnumber 5 to song number six, but is a different vibe. So without giving away the game of what it is, how did this song make it onto your desert island?
Jonathan Stout:Okay, when I started playing guitar, I was in fifth grade, I started taking guitar lessons at like a local music shop and my, I asked my parents to buy me a guitar and they're like, well, we're not just going to buy you a guitar that you will then ignore. We will gladly get your music lessons and rent you a guitar until which at time you have played this thing long enough that you have demonstrated a commitment to it.
Sarah Spoon:That's fair.
Jonathan Stout:Yeah, I think is the way the way to do it. Like don't waste $200 on a beginner guitar until the person has demonstrated that they're actually going to play the thing, you know, spend $200 renting them a guitar for a couple weeks and then spend, you know. So, when I started taking guitar lessons, I'm really lucky that my first guitar teacher, a guy named Mike Schmidt, he's just the perfect person. And I, I think about how lucky I am that certain people were there in my life at different times. And he was just the perfect person to teach me guitar and I am grateful forever and ever that that he was my guitar teacher. But the story is really about my dad, my dad was not a really musical person. He didn't play an instrument. His brother, my uncle is a professional trombone player who's given me lots of lessons throughout the years and I've gotten to work with, and he taught me a lot about arranging. But in in his family, my grandparents. My grandfather was an engineer that went to MIT. And my grandmother was a homemaker. But she'd actually studied modern dance with Martha Graham. But most of, even though these were like, you know, intelligentsia kind of people, music was always important. They obviously always sang in church choir, Grandpa always played French horn or euphonium in like, whatever local brass band and whatever town on the East Coast they were living in at the time. So those kind of different skills, the kind of engineering skill and the musical skill split when they had kids. So my dad was the engineer, and was like a car guy. And like, most of his later life, he was worked in an auto body shop where he was the guy that would look at the car when it came in, and write down exactly what needed to be replaced and fixed because he knew all the parts on the inside and, you know, could see it like it was in a blown apart diagram. You know, he knew, my uncle was the trombone player. And so my dad was not a musical person, really, my uncle was not, his, you know, can't program a VCR like, they're just different people. But my dad, there were certain pieces of music that spoke to him in a way that were very deep and profound, and I got to share them with him. And I think I might have been taking guitar lessons for a week or two. And after he picked me up from a guitar lesson, he said, you know, if you're going to stick with this thing, you need to understand what this instrument is capable of. And so we drove to the record store, and we bought a tape that had this song, and specifically to get the song he wanted to play me, which is a different song. We had to buy the soundtrack to a movie. So sort of a weird, greatest hits compilation and rarities thing because it was the soundtrack to this movie. So it wasn't like just like one of the album's so he wanted to play for me Jimi Hendrix playing the Star Spangled Banner, and my dad was a little too old to be a hippie, like just by like a couple years, he had been in the Navy in the mid 1960s and was stationed in Italy and met my mother. But at one point he had actually put into go to Vietnam not knowing what it was. And just by chance, didn't get it somehow, or like it wasn't selected. And so, you know, he dodged that bullet. And as somebody that completed their tour before stuff got really intense there and went back to civilian life, I would think there was something about that that weighed on him. Because, not quite survivor guilt, I think it'd be a little strong, but I think he realized that like that could have been him. So even though he wasn't a hippie, I think there was something about the message of Jimi Hendrix playing the Star Spangled Banner that that spoke to him really, really deeply. And [gets emotional] it was something that he wanted to share with me, and especially for somebody that's not a musical person that doesn't, you know, he didn't listen to music all the time, like I do. So that that gift of buying me this tape, and it's funny, because the song that I put on the list isn't the Hendrix Star Spangled Banner, although it easily could have been. The one that I put on here is another live thing. And it was Jimi Hendrix covering Bob Dylan's like a Rolling Stone at the Monterey Pop Festival in 1967, which was on this tape, because that's the song that I played over and over again, and isn't one of Hendrix's most famous tunes. It's a cover. He just did it the one time, but I still to this day, don't understand what he's doing on guitar during this song. It still seems like a mystery to me. And it's definitely like this kind of like Isley Brothers, Curtis Mayfield kind of r&b chordal playing that I know where it comes from, I know of other people that do it. And I kind of think I know what it is. But it's just every time I listen to it, I just like, oh, what is he doing? I just don't even understand it. It blows me away. And as someone that is a chordal guitar player now, like, it's still just resonates with me so deeply. And then, you know, it's a Bob Dylan song. That's like one of Bob Dylan's great songs about idealistic people that are innocent and naive, you know, and what happens, and that's a really deep, crazy song. So, for me, this song, not only is Hendrix, and he was my first guitar hero, and all of that, but it's my dad. And I lost my dad a couple years ago. [gets emotional] And... the main takeaway that I got was just being thankful for the gift of music that he shared. And [laughs] good cry number three of this session. But what's weird is my parents got divorced when I was three, and they ended up getting back together, which is like, every kid's Parent Trap dream, but like I was used to them being apart. So that was actually like, not what I wanted. But it all worked out in the end. But so I would go, you know, some weekends with my dad, and he was a car guy. And so we would drive around in his car, we would just go for like a 2, 3, 4, or five hour drive. And what I got to do is navigate, which I still love having a sense of direction, I love driving, I love knowing where things are, and understanding the best way to get somewhere. There's something about that, that tickles my brain that I enjoyed in that experience. But then the other thing is, I got to be the DJ, and I got to play whatever I want. And I would torture him. Now the stuff that I was into through elementary school and middle school and high school and those progressions, and just all this stuff that he probably did not want to hear. But he let me put it on. And listening to music is one of the most important parts of being a musician, and taking it all in and letting it wash over you and, and having that underpinning of knowledge. I mean, people don't learn to speak by learning grammar, they learn to speak by listening and absorbing, and then making and trying to synthesize that. And that's how real music should be made. It's not by learning in books now. Learning how to speak properly and having good grammar is a next step. But if you don't listen to music, like you can't, I can't teach you how to play swing guitar, if you don't listen to swing music. Just goes to say, like, my dad and listening to records over and over and over again for hours and hours and hours. That was something that he facilitated, and also facilitated this thing of music having a meaning beyond itself. And the story behind the music because Jimi Hendrix's version of the Star Spangled Banner doesn't mean anything. If you just listen to it in a vacuum, it's about what it was about. And it's about the time it's about the place and and that's why like when it comes to talking about the context of swing music, like this stuff was not done in a vacuum. These people did not live lives where nothing happened to them and there was nothing going on of importance. So if it weren't for my dad, I wouldn't have had that time in the car. I just sat there and listen to records and I wouldn't have had... I might not have had that Same appreciation for context
Sarah Spoon:Was he really pleased that you found such a place in jazz?
Jonathan Stout:I don't know that that it was jazz spoke to him. But I came home from Lindy Focus a couple of years ago. I'm also an attorney, I went to law school, I have a degree in licensed practice law. And I came back from... and I had been really bummed that I didn't get the job that I wanted to get when I graduated from law school, it broke my heart and I had to go to therapy to get over it. Because it, it had been who I wanted to be, and knowing that that wasn't going to happen was really, was really traumatic. And I'd worked so hard to get it and I should have gotten it. And it was just dumb luck. And you know, things that I didn't get it. And it really broke my heart for a long time. And I always thought while I was doing this music, stuff that like, Oh, that's cool, I'm getting to do this music stuff. But someday I'll get that job that I was I was hoping to get. And I kind of, we kind of starved for a little while when I didn't, when I graduated because I didn't have a plan B. And I eventually got a job on the opposite side of the stuff that I wanted to be doing. And I had qualms about that the whole time, although the stuff that I was doing was kind of minor. So you know, it wasn't really big stakes or anything. And I was able to find the way that I was helping people in what I was doing and and kind of came to peace with that eventually. But I came home from one Lindy Focus. And I was telling my father and my grandfather about what I had done and what Lindy Focus was, and it, and it was talking about the context setting and storytelling element. And realizing that like that's the thing that I do that other people don't. And that's something that makes me special. And [gets emotional] my dad knew I was doing something that was something that I can do that's special and unique to me, and that he was very proud of that. And it was funny, because in explaining it to them, it occurred to me that I'm happy doing what I'm doing. And I don't want that job anymore. I'm happy doing this, and and this is what I'm on the earth to do. And, you know, that realization was powerful for me and it was through talking to them about it. But I also know that he, that really spoke to him, because that's what he wanted. And I think it's true for the same thing like my wife and I we always say like what do we want for Charlie? It's like, I don't want anything specific for him. I just want him to be happy. And whatever that is, and you know we're gonna support it whatever and if it's, we have to buy baseball pads. Okay, great. If we have to buy a tiara, fine, I don't care. I don't care who he is. As long as he's a good person and he's happy, and I will support him to the ends of the earth and I so like, would my dad have liked it more if I were like a rock musician? I mean, I think it probably would have spoke to him a little more directly, you know, but he was he was always, like, when my high school rock bands he would be the roadie carrying my, helping carry my gear to a gig, and but I mean, I wasn't, I wasn't able to drive yet. I was like 15 you know, playing the coffee shop and you know, but he was like right there 100% supporting me enthusiastically, him and our drummers dad, they were roadie one and roadie two. Her dad was roadie number one because he had to break down the drum set which is much more work than the stuff that I had but like just 100% behind me and so like one of the things about cancer is really hard because you see people slip away but one of the... few bright spots is if you know what's going on there's a chance to have that time with somebody [gets emptional] say what needs to be said and so I know like [cries] I know he was proud, and I know he's proud of what I do, and you know, if he'd just been snatched from me, I wouldn't have that necessarily. So, you know and when I hear songs like this one... that's the
Sarah Spoon:on to the next one?
Jonathan Stout:Yeah.
Sarah Spoon:Okay. How would you describe it? You've got five words to describe the song,
Jonathan Stout:thrash metal masterpiece. I mean, that's all you need. I'll take three.
Sarah Spoon:Alright, and where does it fit in your timeline.
Jonathan Stout:So Hendrix was my first kind of Guitar Hero. But I didn't necessarily play that much of it. And I didn't learn his song. I mean, I learned some of the songs, but I didn't really transcribe them in the way that they became part of my playing. And the next kind of big influence was Metallica. And they actually came in slightly before Hendrix because it was getting a Metallica tape that was one of the things that made me want to play guitar, the Black Album when it came out in 1991. And I was basically lucky that like a friend of mine from school, like I'd been listening to, like top 40 pop music, and he changed my radio station to like the then heavy metal station. And I couldn't change it back for some reason. And so I was like, alright, well, I guess I listen to this now. And then my whole life is different. And he was the first person I know that got a guitar. And it's my even thought to ask my parents. So in my guitar playing life, you know, I started with this kind of classic rock stuff. And basically, just before grunge came in, I also got into some of this heavy metal stuff. And there's something about trying to play difficult music, and technically demanding virtuosic music that was appealing to me in a way that friends that started playing guitar just after I did that mostly did grunge, did not speak to them. And so, when it came time to progress beyond playing grunge, that didn't work for them in the same way, whereas like when it came time to turn my attention to jazz, I was already interested in being able to play guitar fluently, proficiently understand music, understand reading, understand, theory, all that stuff. And so this song is one of their greatest epics. It's it's kind of the one of the definitive pieces of thrash metal. And that's my favorite genre of metal, because it just seems to have the most awesome teenage male aggression in it. And it's complicated, and it's good, but it's not like the screamy death metal stuff, and it's still got melody. And I feel like they set this template than anybody that's trying to be harder than that. It's just unpleasant, and it's not good to listen to anymore. But I just... Metallica, Kirk Hammett, the lead guitar player, his solos were just really melodic and kind of classical or neoclassical in a way that was very current in the 80s. And so this again, this is another one where like, there's 20 songs that are should be encapsulated in this, this one song. So his guitar teacher was a guy named Joe Satriani, who was one of the first CDs I got. And it was instrumental guitar rock. And there's something about that instrumental virtuosity that spoke to me. Then his student comes along and plays all these great solos in Metallica, that spoke to me. And learning the solo to Fade to Black was a very important part of my melodic development, because going from just kind of playing blues licks in a classic rock kind of way into playing all the notes of the scale, and to play in this more neoclassical way. That was definitely a thing where it's like, oh, I have to learn scales. So I have to learn more notes. I have to learn how to do these things. And then, you know, this is a song that has meters of odd time in it, which is really cool. And it's got multiple sections. And then there's like the harmony part in the middle where the two guitars are playing in harmony. And yeah, I just, it's one of their magnum opus is I think one would have been another choice. But that song doesn't mean as much to me, even though I think it's equally as good. But yeah, because I have this, this underpinning in heavy metal and difficult, challenging, technically proficient music. There was something that prepared me for doing more than just playing Smells Like Teen Spirit and calling it a day. Not to say that I didn't do that.
Sarah Spoon:I think everyone did that. I know you have a voice you can sing. You choose to not do that very often. Do you have 'metal voice'?
Jonathan Stout:No, no, and I think it wasn't until much later that I learned I can probably sing perfectly passibly, I mean, it's not great but it's like, it's not to be ashamed of. I think trying to sing things that are just grotesquely out of my range or not fitting for me is part of why I never sung, and was very embarrassed by it. So no, I will not attempt to go, to do a James Hetfield. [sings] Ahhhh yeah! You know?
Sarah Spoon:[laughs] Like you just did.
Jonathan Stout:[laughs] Yeah, I guess, I guess I did. I won't, I won't. I won't try and sing the song. Yeah, it's funny. This like, I'm so much more I think formed the rest of my identity as like a 90s kid going through alternative rock and grunge. But having this kind of anchor of pre grunge, pre punk Renaissance made me still want to play guitar in a way that some of my friends didn't and I'm kind of grateful for that.
Sarah Spoon:Could you introduce this in your best James Hetfield? next track. Again it's another switch up. And this is definitely excellent choice for desert island. Where on the desert island are you when you're listening to this?
Jonathan Stout:I don't know where I am on a desert island but I know where I listen to the song, and so one of the things I did in prepping for this is I looked at my iTunes play count and I just was like, what is the stuff that I've listened to the most times? And that's not exactly accurate because if you don't finish the song or you like skip, it doesn't count but like, I just look to see what was represented and this is like one One of the things that I've listened to, by leaps and bounds more than any other song, and this is Kong by Bonobo. And what I, one of the reasons I play it is because I would put this record on three quarters of the time that I get on a plane, on a red eye, and I need to fall asleep, and I want to listen to something that just makes me feel good. This record, the whole album does that. For me. This is my favorite song from it. And this is the song that got me into Bonobo and it's it's just such a banger. But the reason that it's such a head fake is this is like a like an electronic thing. And you're like where does that come from? And so one of the things that I think is really, an important part of my life has been electronic music, even though it hasn't been represented yet. So, growing up in Los Angeles, we have this very influential radio station, KROQ, 'K-Rock', and it's just part of my identity as a Los Angelino, this music. And, when new wave and punk and synth pop and all that stuff hit in the 80s, it was the voice of that and they made this music, kind of part of the cultural force. So that kind of electronic music a new wave is just part of the DNA of being a Los Angeleno that you grow up here at least when I grew up here and listening to that station, then things like the Smiths and the Cure and Depeche Mode and New Order and Yaz like, you just know that I never knew who Yaz was. But like I definitely knew. Think about that, that that I can't sing the song. But like I just knew that every day at lunch to this 80s music would come on, and it had all this electronic stuff. So something like you know, New Order. That's normal music and there wasn't anything odd about it, which I think a lot of rock people don't like electronic music and you can talk about like, racial and anti LGBT themes in the not-liking of dance music, going back to disco. But I do think there's something about synthesizers, it's weird for people that come up playing guitar music that can also be separated from those. But like I said, it was just a birthright. I always liked things like Depeche Mode and New Order and all that stuff. And so when I got into playing music, and was listening to this kind of stuff filtering through the 90s, one of the stops along the way was like heavy metal. And there's a band called Nine Inch Nails and they like are doing heavy metal with like electronic things. And then I managed to get a Ministry album from Columbia House by mistake and I was like, Oh, what is this? And so then there was this whole like segue into goth industrial music for years.
Sarah Spoon:Did you wear eyeliner?
Jonathan Stout:I.. you know, it's funny. I don't think I ever wore eyeliner but I did have my hair dyed first maroon and then Black. And it was a really unpleasant look on me. I did wear fishnets and Doc Martens and shorts and a black shirt. I did have a fishnet shirt that went under the the black band t shirt for like kmfdm or whatever
Sarah Spoon:Please tell me there's photo evidence
Jonathan Stout:Someone else will have to dig it up because I'm sure as shit won't! Kong and Bonobo is this electronic artist that is fusing jazzy things I usually hate jazz and electronic music pushed together because it's just bad swing music, and it makes, it hurts my feelings. But this this is like organic in the best ways that jazz is, but bringing in an electronic and dance beat to it. I mean, this record and the one right after it are some of the things that I will still listen to the most and I will basically start track one of Black Sands that Kong is on. I'd say 70% of the time that I get on a red eye flight that goes on and my noise cancelling headphones go on. And somewhere through the fourth track. I'll be asleep for the rest of the flight. I love that bottle it sounds like somebody hitting a bottle[mimics sound of bottle being struck] dink dink dink dink dink dink dink, dink dink dink dink dink dink dink, there's something about electronic music and the way that layers of rhythmic accents and the way they interact. It's just like what you do with writing a swing arrangement. When I started college that was 1999 and that was kind of the summer that trance broke. And so like I definitely got our Ableton Live and was like making like trancy kind of tracks on my computer. One of the guys down my hall this guy Devin, he was actually a trance DJ and I was like, oh, I am, I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm like playing at this and you actually know. And I was the first time I saw somebody had turntables in their rooms that like could scratch and I was like, oh my god, this is so hard and so much beyond the level of what I thought it was like turntable ism and sampling that that is a legit thing that I'm not going to look down on. I mean, I can complain that Puff Daddy had a bunch of radio hits, just recycling old songs and chroming them up. But like, that's a whole other thing.
Sarah Spoon:So Stars, Ageless Beauty.
Jonathan Stout:like I said, we grew up in LA so k-rock is sort of a birthright and the ways that like hearing Dead or Alive, that's normal, and that's totally okay. And then you know, as soon as lunch hour is over, it goes back to Nirvana and Bad Religion. And that whole k-rock thing is like, such a part of my musical DNA, and I'm so grateful for it. But of course, when you get a little bit older, like these kind of teen angsty things start to be a little less appropriate. And when I started college, that was also the year that I really started listening to KCRW. And KCRW is Los Angeles is NPR affiliate or one of them, and they have been breaking music basically for the last 30 years. And like they would have live sessions every morning so that that's where I heard so many things. It was first time I heard Coldplay It was the first time I heard any number of the things that I listened to in the mid 2000s and even now. And all of the last three bands are things that I first heard on KCRW, and Stars is a band from Montreal. I describe it as pop music for grownups because they don't have teenage angst. They have the adult unresolved angst of having been a teenager and having not having your feelings figured out, and now you're an adult and you still have to deal with all this shit. And so I just I love them. And they also have the same kind of musical DNA of like stuff like Morrissey and the Smiths and electronic music, but also rock music and new wave. And that being a part of their DNA. So their second record, which is what this Ageless Beauty is from. The first track is Your Ex Lover Is Dead. And it's about being introduced to somebody you used to date at a party, like you, you turn around and like, oh, have you met so and so? And you look at them and like, Yes, I think we've met before. That's something that like a teenager doesn't understand. Like, you have to be in your 30s to get that or your late 20s. The kind of ending refrain is like,[sings lyrics] I'm not sorry, I met you I'm not sorry, it's over. I'm not sorry. There's nothing to say. Like, that just really speaks to me. Another thing that's cool about Stars is they have to lead vocalist Amy Millian, and Torquil Campbell. And so you get a lot, of there are a lot of songs they have where they have her singing and him singing different sides of the same story. There's a song called Elevator Love Letter off of their debut record Heart that basically the first verse is one of them singing the story. And then the other one seeing the same story and the parallel, but differences in them is really cool. Oh, and then Ageless Beauty, I haven't even talked about what I love about this song, the sound, the sound, there's something about the shoegaze-y kind of Wall of Sound thing that I love, and the fact that there's like synthesizers in it, but it also rocks. And her voice is just amazing. And this is a song that like if I'm feeling down and especially like 10 20 years ago, I was in law school in the years that this came out and like there were days where I just had so much dread or apprehension or it was just not feeling and I just would turn this up as loud as I could and just listen to it in my car. And that made me feel better. And I love them and they're their new stuff. It just got a little more dancey and a little more, just not disco-y but like a little more funky. And so I love some of the stuff they have like there's all these like references, little winks and nods to the music that I love that they also love. So like there's a song off Set Yourself On Fire that starts[sings lyrics] sweetness, sweetness, and then it goes somewhere completely different. And it's not the Smiths song, but it's just that little like, Ah, you know what that is! And it's it's very much the same thing we do with jazz where we're constantly making references to things that we love. And it's not necessarily copying, but it's sort of like taking that idea and then making it our own. And they do it better than almost anybody I've ever seen where you get this kernel of the thing you love and a wink and a nod like yeah, you know, you know
Sarah Spoon:You know whats up.
Jonathan Stout:I love stars. The only concerts I've seen that aren't swing music in the last, you know, 10, 15 years are Bonobo and Stars and I've seen them, I guess I saw Royksopp. But I think the band that for the last five, six years has been the one that I've followed the most closely because I'm so out of touch with modern music, it seems, is this guy from Munich, Roosevelt. I almost don't understand why I just absolutely adore his music. And it speaks to me on such a level. I mean, I sort of understand it, but almost, it's got this like, kind of washed out chill wave thing combined with like an 80s synth pop thing, but it's a little funkier and it's definitely more dance club. I've never been to a place where someone would play this for people to dance.
Sarah Spoon:Well, the club you have on your desert island, obviously.
Jonathan Stout:[laughs] But I don't know how to dance to it. Like I I started swing dancing, because I didn't know how to dance to non to like regular music. But like the swing dancing, like it taught me how to like dance to a thing. And I don't like dancing, the non swing music and I hate swing dancing to non swing dance music. But like I don't even know how I would interact with this song in the wild. But like I heard it on KCRW And it just it spoke to me and it it was actually his previous record that I first heard. And then basically right after I discovered him, he was starting to do the new album. And this was the first thing off the new album. And yeah, there's just something so danceable and funky about it. And it speaks to all of those things about the layerings of rhythms and making dance music in swing, and then also my liking electronic music that just jumped at me. And then the reason I chose this song is there's something very 80s about it, which again, speaks to kind of new wave and that that tradition in Los Angeles that I grew up with, but over the outro there's this acid line that comes in. And for people that don't know what an acid line is, it's from a particular synthesizer. It's a Roland bass synthesizer, and it's a little programmable thing. So you can make [makes electronic robotic noises] a bit of dooba dooba data, a bit of dooba dooba data, you could just kind of like, but more than that you would play these kind of like little little figures. And then there would be controls on it that would allow you to sweep the filters in a way that like[sings electronic dance rhythm pulse] to damp down to damper dam dam dam, dam dam dam dam Tampa, Tampa cute drew drew Drew, Drew..... And that's the sound of like trance music, for example, like, that's one of the incredibly important parts of that. And there's, in the delineating all of the different taxonomy of electronic musics. If you tack the word acid onto another term, it means that it features that synthesizer so like, there's something about the nostalgic quality of that acid line just reminds me of like 1999, 2000 of being in college and hearing that sound. And it also reminds me of the kind of electronica boom that happened when I was in high school with stuff like Sneaker Pimps and the movie The Saint and the soundtrack to that and just all of that, and it was a show on MTV that replaced 120 minutes, the name of which I'm, is escaping me, you know, hearing Underworld and Orbital and all of that stuff was like, so mind expanding, and there's something about that filter sweep at the end of this song and it just like takes me right back to there. But there's something about the dance and funk of this, that again reinforces my love of the the way that rhythms overlap and interact to make people move. It's awesome music and I love it, just the history of electronic music and house music and disco music and the gay roots of that culture, and that that's always been a part of that. And, you know, I love that, I love the vibe that I get from it. And it makes me want to dance and move and I don't know how to dance. I don't know I don't say like, but
Sarah Spoon:I just saw you do the dancing. You did the chair dancing just now. I saw it with mine own eyes!
Jonathan Stout:I am so glad that no one else was tortured with that, with that vision. But yeah, I don't know. I just I love this music and I love there's something about it that is somehow challenging to gender norms, heteronormative norms, and maybe no one else sees that music but like, there's definitely like a song on their, their EP that came before this. That's like, clearly a dude singing out about another dude. And I don't think that the artist is actually LGBT and who cares? Like, you can do that. Like there's any number of female swing singer singing songs about Sweet Sue, that it doesn't matter. And it's, you know,
Sarah Spoon:you know, you're preaching to the choir on this one.
Jonathan Stout:Wait, are you are you a cause for LGBT inclusivity? I Oh, wait, you are. [both laugh] And you're someone that I can always count on to make me be aware of my privilege to check my privilege, and to make me challenge my assumptions about pronouns and things like that. And realize that, you know, just because I think a pronoun is one way doesn't mean that it is and that being responsible for that stuff is a really important part of what limited role I have in being someone that is visible in the community, and to be respectful of that. So like good on you for making me try to be a better person.
Sarah Spoon:Thanks. Do you want to tell us a little bit about the theme song for this podcast, is of your creation, and I'm super proud. And I'm gonna brag to anyone that listens that Oh, it's from Jonathan stouts album. And you know, he did a special version with two guitars for me because you know, I'm special. I'd love to flesh that out a little bit more in terms of how the riff developed and whatever else you would care to add?
Jonathan Stout:Yeah, so while we've been under quarantine, I've been playing a lot of solo chord melody guitar, because I'm lucky enough that I can play a more or less complete song all by myself, which is something that I'm very grateful for. Because if I were a trumpet player that's much more difficult. But you also have to play piano just have something to play along with. And you can't do them at the same time. So I've just been playing a ton of it. And I've been doing these podcasts, basically on Facebook Live from my front porch, and it's on my Facebook page. And I've been doing these for a long time, because they are a really great way to practice solo instruments, while having a modicum of accountability. It's really hard to practice a solo instrument by yourself, because you have to have the discipline to not stop. And when you're the only person playing and you're improvising, you can get to that part where you're like, yeah, I What do I do, and you just have to keep going, you have to keep swimming, keep swimming, keep swimming, just like Finding Nemo. And I've been doing this for a long time. And it's sort of really hit a nerve during quarantine because people are so starved for connection. And people are wanting to see live entertainment. And this is the closest they can get sometimes. And I can play a complete song by myself. So I kind of have a leg up. So I've been doing these like as regularly as I can. And it's been really nice. But part of the problem of playing historic music is that you don't own the songs if you're playing someone else's songs. And there's a big problem with songs getting blocked on YouTube and videos demonetised you're getting taken out of Facebook or when Susan Glasser did her swing documentary, there's like 45 minutes of scenes, that is my band playing in the background and almost always playing Jumping At The Woodside that had to be dubbed over by a modern band playing an original song, because they couldn't afford the rights to Jumping at the Woodside. So, songwriting has never been something that I've aspired to. I've always been super self conscious of it. But in the last kind of five years, it's really been something that we have to do because otherwise we get cut out of things, our videos get demonetised, stuff like that. It seems like the only time I've written original songs is when somebody needs one. And that's kind of true, because every time I've started a band, it's because somebody needed another band or they needed the thing. Lindy Focus needed somebody to do five nights of different swing dance music every night and how do we do that? California Balboa classic needed something that wasn't the Campus Five or the Jonathan Stout Orchestra, but it needed to be Balboa friendly, that's why there's a Grand Slam Sextet. It's always been somebody needs something or want something that has been the cause of that. So I've been doing more songwriting and I managed to kind of come up with a little thing that's called All Cooped Up and I wrote recorded that entirely under quarantine, and because I've been practicing more and studying this tradition, I've been coming up with little things. And I've been doing a lot of teaching of that style. And part of teaching, jazz is learning little tudes. Because sometimes learning someone's actual solo is too challenging, you need to almost find a kind of simplified version almost like see spot run, see ...you know, Fun with Dick and Jane kind of simplified version of the language so that they can get their their mitts around it. So I've just been doing a ton of playing. And then I came up with this little thing[sings beginning riff of DIJ Theme] boo, boo, doo doo, doo, doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. And the way that I write a lot of it is painting myself into a corner and figuring out how I can get myself out of it. And like that song is very much like, Okay, if I go here, where does that lead to next? And then where do I go? So yeah, so I wrote recorded this version of it. And you know, trying to come up with a title, I wanted to kind of reference the porch. Because it means something to people that that watch it. But it also means something to me, because it's where I've been able to grow as a musician I, I did a solo guitar CD two years ago. And it was only from having done these porchcasts regularly, that I'd really gotten skilled enough at it to be able to record that album. And so that was essential practice.
Sarah Spoon:And it's a great album,
Jonathan Stout:thank you, Pick It & Play It, available at Bandcamp now. [laughs]
Sarah Spoon:Green cover? Or was the new one, the green,
Jonathan Stout:the green cover. And basically like, because Bandcamp has been so cool that once a month, they are the first Friday of the month, they have been waving their commission to kind of help artists that have been beleaguered by the loss of revenue from not being able to gig. So I put out a solo guitar EP, and it's the basically the same cover, it's just with a red cover instead of a green cover. And it says recorded under quarantine, it's called All Cooped Up. And one of the songs on it is I named it after the porch called Front Porch Swing, just kind of a pun on like having a swing on your porch. And when you had asked if there was a song that you could that I might have that you could use for the thing you liked Front Porch Swing, but it wasn't peppy enough. And to be honest, like a lot of the things I've been writing do have kind of a wistful melancholy feeling because that's kind of how we're all feeling a little bit when we're not filled with rage. But anyway, it occurred to me that if I sped that song up a little bit and played it a little bit peppier, that it might sound nice for your purposes. And I had also recorded a two guitar version of On the Sunny Side of the Street from my friend, Peter Flahiff. And I thought, Okay, well, that that sounded good enough for his purposes, maybe I could do a two guitar version for you. And the two guitar tradition in, oh my god, this is so much more than you were asking about. But this is what happens. I'm so sorry.
Sarah Spoon:I knew what I was getting into.
Jonathan Stout:We've met, we're friends, you know this [Sarah laughs]. So the in that kind of chordal, guitar playing chord melody guitar playing where you're playing kind of more notes than just a single melody, carrying the whole thing yourself. A lot of that traditionally, from the 30s is actually guitar duets. And they're not completely solo pieces. And I wish I'd realized that when I bit off trying to do an entire album of completely solo guitar, because I would have realized, like, that's actually a lot harder than what the original source material was doing. And there's something that's really cool about having this contrapuntal, two different voices moving independently thing that I wanted to bring to that song, and I'm not as good at it as I would like to be because I still don't really understand as deeply what that second guitar is doing. So my goal is to do another EP for Bandcamp, to do a two guitars, you know, me doing duets with myself thing. And you needing a theme song and liking that song with needing it to be peppy was the perfect excuse for me to start experimenting with that stuff. And I've actually got another little melody that I'm going to do for that. I want at least three more. So yeah, but thank you for giving me the inspiration to take this wistful theme and make it into something that's a little more put a pep in your step, you know.
Sarah Spoon:Well, you're welcome. Anytime. Thank you. Thank you 1000 times. Thank you. You have been as delightful as I was expecting.
Jonathan Stout:I try I try. I try. You know, like, ol.
Sarah Spoon:And that's our episode. Thank you so much for listening. I had a great time. And if you also had a great time, then I encourage you to subscribe and leave a review those things are really handy little podcasters like myself. If you'd like to find Jonathan online, you can find him in a few places actually, www.campusfive.com or campus five.bandcamp.com or Jonathanstout.bandcamp.com or facebook.com/Jonathanstoutswingguitar or facebook.com/campusfive. On Instagram, just @campusfive. Also, as well as having the usual listen along playlists for this episode on Spotify and YouTube there is a special holidays playlist available on Spotify, but just search Desert Island Jams and it'll just bring up everything that you can listen to. You will notice that there is no midpoint advert break in this podcast so if you'd like to continue for that to be a thing, then please go to patreon.com/desertislandjams. You can find us on Instagram, guess what the username is, that's correct it's@desertislandjams. Desert Island Jams is produced by me, Sarah Spoon, the music license is kindly sponsored by voicesculptor.com. Sara Azmy also known as @sazmy_designs on Instagram is the magician who whipped up the graphics. Jonathan Stout produced this original music for our soundtrack, please go to Bandcamp and buy all of his things immediately. If you would like a transcript for this episode, FYI all of the episodes have transcripts, then you just need to follow the link that is in the show notes. Again, thank you for listening, and Desert Island Jams will return next month.